7, 6. ago. It's lowest level and the only set everyone is guaranteed to have unlocked. A level 60 dungeon/raid should only need a level 60 gear requirement. Shizucheese • • 6 yr. It felt like an epic culmination to that phase of Gorillaz, and the animation/editing was phenomenal. It will mean that when someone is trying to queue for a higher raid, more people will be available to be assigned to that raid through the roulette. By default, it will show the Duty Roulette. If someone starts with low hp, that means they took off gear to cheese the ilvl requirement for the roulette. To use this feature, players must first purchase the FINAL FANTASY XIV - PlayStation®Plus Reward: Aetheryte Additional Free Destination from the. Again don't get me wrong it would be a nice thing. All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos News Guides Reviews. Plus the poetics of the instance itself (20-150 for the ones that can end up in 50/60, 100 for the ones in alliance roulette plus the bosses in alliance raid also give extra poetics) A/S rank hunts gives poetics (for lvl 50+, which you are). jetpacksforall. The Eorzea Songbook - A library of the motifs in the FFXIV soundtrack, and the songs that feature them, with examples. 1. After the patch I cannot take these classes into alliance roulette unless I buy gear or rush through shadowbringers. Plus some people don't want a challenge so they don't. Set lota to ilvl 90, syrcus to 110, and WoD to 130. This is having a huge adverse impact on everyone who. Balmung. In terms of 24 man raids my favorite so far has been Heavensward, it felt like it added to the lore without relying too much on something else. The ilevel cheesers are, more often than not, just filling spots in groups. If you want to level a job, the only roulettes that are worth it are the main scenario, leveling dungeon, alliance raid, and front line roulettes. Adventurers can take part in the Duty Roulette: Mentor to get 80 Aphorism and the Duty Roulette: Frontline for 50 Aphorism tomestones. 1 brings a multitude of additions and refinements to the realm. 1, x. You can have a roulette unlocked without having everything in that roulette unlocked. You are not supposed to wear lvl 50 or 60 gear to run 70 content. one of the only 2 alliance raid series that's available in the free trial. 6. Community suggesting changing CT into a 4 man now, likely removing a good introductory 24 man raid with unique mechanics for new players in the process, and also likely making it even harder for new. List here what Alliance Raid you get when you use the Alliance roulette so we can see how effective the new item level change is in practice. The Duty Finder is the matchmaking system in Final Fantasy XIV that allows players to queue up for instanced Dungeons, Trials, Raids, Guildhests, or PvP (Player-versus-Player) content without first needing to be part of a pre-made party. Syrcus Tower is 12-15 minutes for 220/120/50 tomes and about half a level assuming you're doing your daily roulette. In order to prevent server congestion immediately after the release of Patch 6. 5 Alliance Roulette Changes So why did they change it so the roulettes item level is tied to your class level? My proposed solution is reworking the algorithm to favor alliance raid roulettes to, most of the time, match closer to a player's current tier (50/60/70/80) and have an option in party settings to allow themselves to queue out of their tier, like we have for joining parties in progress now. These are all considered normal-difficulty content. Once they enter the raid they equip all their gear again. Removing CT from queue would just create long queues for whoever specifically queues for it. Adding certain chat channel commands (such as /p to party, /a for alliance chat, /cwl1 for crossworld linskhell 1) will specify it, so like. I actually haven't gotten WoD in weeks. 4. Basically its problem is that it is the middle child. 0 introduces myriad quests in addition to the main scenario. 415 likes · 4 talking about this · 528 were here. glenjamin1616 • 23 days ago. It can. 5: Growing Light is the fifth and final major content update introduced for Endwalker. Try to queue during your DC's primetime, or at least between the daily reset of dungeon roulettes and roughly midnight. this is a side effect of the newest changes to alliance raid roulettes. My guess is that you got one of the story trials and it counted for the roulette but not as a dungeon. For leveling you ideally one closest to your level for more exp. Petition to boost CT exp reward but move it into a separated "MSQ Alliance roulette" like old prae and castrum in msq roulette, ppl still doing it quite often despite the long unskippable cutscenes, so new sprouts can definitely still queue for CT for their msq and it wont get deserted while normal folks like me can actually get something that. Patch 4. If rewards are tiered, people would be more inclined to abandon CT raids which defeats the purpose of the roulette. Teil des „FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE”There is a point of contention in the community regarding ilvl cheese in roulettes, particularly Alliance. The solution for the "Alliance Roulette Cheesing" problem no one seems to think about. My idea to tell it short: You MUST qualify for the highest available alliance raid. To nip the problem in the bud, it was announced that Item Level restrictions will be added to the 24-man duty raffle to prevent further. It's lowest level and the only set everyone is guaranteed to have unlocked. As a result, this article will list five of the best roulette games, from good to great, for increasing a player's battle job level. Plus I need those moogle tombstones, so I don't mind doing the Ivalice. It will change something. Unless I am mistaken. Leveling roulette should be giving you roughly 40~50% of a level at 50+. Community suggesting changing CT into a 4 man now, likely removing a good introductory 24 man raid with unique mechanics for new players in the process, and also likely making it even harder for new. Yep, if even one person queues up on their level 50-59 alt job, boom 23 other people get CT. But at this point the system gets abused in a way that they might as well remove the roulette from the game. I would kill to get any Ivalice raid in Roulette. Alliance raid roulette is used for leveling, obviously there will be more low level jobs queuing. You need to be able to enter at least two of the raids to be able to sign up for the roulette. I understand that it’s the only raid needed for progression but there needs to be some way to make the spread of what we get more even. We don't have any specific info on the exp yet, but the increase in tomes isn't anywhere near enough. A community for fans of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, with an…For Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Realm Reborn on the PC, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Roulettes efficiency, measured. A level 60 dungeon/raid should only need a level 60 gear requirement. 1) Location The Void Ark Region Abalathia's Spine Patch 3. Or, as a really fun change, make alliance roulette min ilvl only. For example, Aurum Vale will give more XP than Wanderer's Palace. Discussions Rules and. Many players are working on Myths of the Realm at the moment so that should be expected to appear somewhat frequently if you're using a level 90 job. Most of the case, it takes longer than 45 minutes, or even an hour or more. In order to get Nier in roulette, every single person has to be level 80. And like FFXIV Roulette everyone is bumped down in level and don't have all of their class abilities. People need to just ask if they don't know the mechanics lol. If you need better gear, Mor Dhona is also the place to go for that. See moreBonus experience points received from Duty Roulette: Alliance Raids has been increased. This change was never going to "fix" alliance roulette because ilevel cheese was never the main cause of "Crystal Tower Roulette" in the first place. The funniest potential solution to ilvl cheese queueing. All alliance raids except the crystal tower series got an exp and tome increase with the higher the level the more the increase. The Nier raids are so disconnected from anything FFXIV that after I completed them (and the subsequent epilogue quests that I was assured would "totally make. Many players are working on Myths of the Realm at the moment so that should be expected to appear somewhat frequently if you're using a level 90 job. Every other roulette doesn't have much difference in the time cost. Teil des „FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE”Just came out of alliance roulette with all these RDM's lol. 25% of your EXP bar per minute. 5 notes, which can now be viewed in their entirety. This change was never going to "fix" alliance roulette because ilevel cheese was never the main cause of "Crystal Tower Roulette" in the first place. Your SMN, being below 60, only needs the iLvl for the ARR raids. ARR roulette could easily jump way up in the list if they fixed ilvl cheese, but as it stands it's basically CT roulette outside of specific times there's a tomestone incentive for a. Flare Star: Used immediately after Eikonizer, heavy raid-wide damage reduced by being as far away as possible. New Alliance Raid Roulette Still Won't Be Worth Doing. Business, Economics, and Finance. 0) Location. If that cannot be done - lower the amount of exp you get from those two raids, and boost the amount of exp you get from SB raids or copied factory. 5. Guildhest roulette gives negligible XP on high levels and not worth it. Used twice, first. But at this point the system gets abused in a way that they might as well remove the roulette from the game. You can earn bonus experience through use of items or consumables, by participating in instanced content and FATEs, and by completing quests. some people ilvl cheese to get lower level raids. If a pattern appears the GM's will see it. Sometimes I don't even provoke it back but end up getting it anyways because the tank provoking probably has no idea how to even maximize their dps, but like this the boss would needlessly spin, so I tend to voke immediately when they do and the boss won't even turn. ago. You're not required to run the roulette everyday, especially Alliance and Main Scenario. The FFXIV 6. The problem must be dealt with. Guildhest roulette gives negligible XP on high levels and not worth it. Normal raids will give 100 Poetics and Aphorism each, while Alliance raids reward 80 Poetics and 60 Aphorism. It gives less weekly tomestone, and you could earn more from just running a specific expert dungeon instead of touching 90 roulette. White Mage Lv 90. Sep 30, 2021. 5 and still the alliance roulette is still completely broken with it being the LOTA/ST roulette with maybe a WOD once a month then the new raid in the. Alliance raid roulette is a thing, so there's always time to catch up. If I end up in The Orbonne Monastery its not the same level of challenge as the the first 2 Crystal Tower levels/dungeons. ”You can unlock the final of the three alliance raids, Thaleia, through a side quest. Patch 6. To avoid getting placed in Alliance Raids that take 3+ times longer to complete than the Crystal Tower ones, people "cheese" the duty finder by removing gear to. You are better than that, so don't stoop to that level. The roulette requiries that you have access to at least 2 24-man raid to be available. 100 (200 if first time bonus) for about 30 minutes or so. The roulette system in the Duty Finder will not place you in content you do not qualify for based on your ilvl, even if you meet the character level requirements and have unlocked it. (That really means theres only like 7-8 hours where queues are really bad) If you are having long queue times for 4-man dungeons. Teil des „FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE“. ago. It's lowest level and the only set everyone is guaranteed to have unlocked. Goblin. My worst alliance raid experience can’t even fit on this bingo board, it was so specific. It can be as simple as just putting "Hey there" in an empty macro. Alliance 24 man • 3 6 15 Unsyncing Allowed Time limit 120 minutes Duty Finder Alliance Raids (Heavensward) Roulette Alliance Raids Tomestones 100 60 8 Req. Copied Factory is probably my favorite alliance raid in both aesthetics and fight design. Basic trials (ARR and HW mandatory trials including 4man ifrit, titan and garuda) Advanced Trials (HW optional trials, SB, ShB trials) MSQ (All non-optional 8 man encounters that heavily prioritizes players who havent completed those and are in queue, even if those. If you are missing any just check your main town for the exclamation point with a plus sign. Nier Automata's music is top tier and continued into FF14. Get More Info ›. A community for fans of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, with an expanded free trial that includes the entirety of A Realm Reborn and the award-winning Heavensward and Stormblood expansions up to level 70 with no restrictions on playtime. Only about 5 were non CT raids. It's by far the one that pops up the most. Please mention the. It's absolutely insane. Dun Scaith, the last Alliance Raid available in the Heavensward expansion, and can be accessed in Free Trial. ilvl cheesing a roulette involves removing gear for a roulette to limit which duties may appear in the roulette, This ensures a player is able to. For example, the Alliance Raids roulette will line you up for one of the twelve 24-man alliance raids. Alliance Raids. The following content and updates has been announced to release in Final Fantasy XIV in Patch 6. The requirement is anything but high, its the lowest of lowest possible to not entirely grief your partymembers. The alliance raid and normal raid roulete unlocks when you have unlocked 2 or more of them. If you don't have Ivalice unlocked, it will do the other two (CT and the Sky Pirate ones). those people then take more people away as their crystal tower run gets filled up, leaving even fewer people able to populate the nier run. If you've got a premade party of 4, then yes, there's an option in DF settings for that. Before level 60, leveling + alliance roulettes give a full level. #1. You are better than that, so don't stoop to that level. Roulette. Main Class. It’s well worth doing! Make Crystal Tower Great Again. ago. This. Thaleia is unlocked through The Heart of the Myth Side Quest, which you can obtain from Deryk at Mor Dhona (X:23. 10-30-2023 07:24 PM #35. Dear Devs, Please. No, pretty much for the reasons other people have outlined. 50-60 range is the worst range for side leveling as potd leveling slows down a lot. Trials doesn't give a lot of exp, but it's nice and quick for what it is. Therefore, if any of you did not unlock Syrcus Tower, then you did not have simultanesouly access to two raids (Labyrinth of the Ancients and Syrcus Tower). Please take time to read. Thunder God raid. It will be available as soon as you’ve completed The Secret of the Twelve quests beforehand, obtained in the same questline you first unlocked the Euphrosyne Alliance Raid. Alliance roulette should be tiered, every 10 levels you need to have: 1) the gear required for the highest unlocked alliance raid for your level. Replies: 0; Views: 11,159;. Yet if you look at supports response it's always some bs like. Yep, if even one person queues up on their level 50-59 alt job, boom 23 other people get CT. So honestly, instead of being snappy, I would recommend going through the wiki and looking at the. We are proud to present the patch notes for Death Unto Dawn, where the stage is set for a cataclysmic battle that will lead into the story of Endwalker. It was added in this patch, in response to feedback that people deliberately reduced their item level to force themselves to get level 50 raids (which are the easiest due to battle system changes and item level growth). Please Listen: Its super annoying that alliance Roulette means for 95% Crystal Tower Roulette. 50/60/70 is only good for tomes, normal raid roulette gives pretty bad exp, but. 5 Notes. FIRST PERSON. The ancient Allagan structure is not so easily entered, however, and the Labyrinth of the Ancients now awaits the fellowship of NOAH as they seek the. List here what Alliance Raid you get when you use the Alliance roulette so we can see how effective the new item level change is in practice. Heaven on High (lvl 60-70), Trusts (lvl 70-80), Clan/Nut Hunts (lvl 50-80), Challenge Log (any level), Beast Tribe (lvl 50-80), Alliance Raid roulette (lvl 50-80), Side Quests (when you’re close to a level up) the big xp roulettes. [deleted] • 3 yr. It's because it's the lowest level. Plus, the raids go really quick since everyone is OP due to being synced. People get mad because forcing CT every run kind of takes all of the variety out of the roulette. To meet item level requirements for content I have not unlocked. Absolute most exp would probably be MSQ > Alliance > Leveling. MSQ Roul is good if you want to get a lot of EXP after a long dungeon where you're barely paying attentiong, but even then I'd still only do it if I also wanted the poetics. Prae gives 75ish% of a level for a 45 minute time commitment with 5 minute of work. Patch 6. 50/60/70 is barely worth anything. However, assuming that you want to make the most of your time, we will now calculate EXP gain efficiency by dividing gains by time spent in each roulette. edit: fixed phrasing. Every single time I find myself wanting to do a quick alliance roulette, you can almost guarantee I'll get the Ivalice or Neir raids. You are not supposed to wear lvl 50 or 60 gear to run 70 content. Patch 6. The requirement is anything but high, its the lowest of lowest possible to not entirely grief your partymembers. Even with level syncing, you still typically out item-level things and crush them under your foot. To me, there’s two possible options: Make clearing all alliance raids necessary for progression. Usually around 30-45 mins. It doesn't have the story faults of YoRHa, but it isn't quite as gripping a tale as (IMO) Ivalice, nor as important as Syrcus. It's the same thing with the fact people would rather leave Castrum, sit the 30m, and do Praetorium. For the Alliance Raids, you’re either gonna have to queue for them normally and be patient, or else try to find build a group on Party Finder. Whether you’re relaxing in the new residential area, Shirogane, or testing. And over, and over and over. the super-easy-to-get lvl 70 tomegear is ilvl 400 even. You might even make some new friends too as well as get comms. HW and SB 8-mans, yes, and they appear in normal raid roulette. 1. Read the patch notes. Do note that the bonus only applies once daily, though. You're unrestricted on where you get the tomes from - if it makes someone feel better about having an "authentic experience" of grinding Syrcus Tower a thousand times by queuing into Alliance roulette, then go for it. 400 votes, 119 comments. Teil des „FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE” Der 38. The Final Fantasy XIV Fan Festival 2023 brought not only the first glimpse at the Dawntrail expansion, but also included our usual sneak peeks at the upcoming Endwalker 6. 45, following the release of The. Its the same reason why the first low level 4 player versions of Titan, Ifrit and Garuda are in levelling roulette. This change was never going to "fix" alliance roulette because ilevel cheese was never the main cause of "Crystal Tower Roulette" in the first place. But it'd require testing. EndlessKng • 2 yr. Meaning that the 50-60 range is the range I'm most likely to do alliance raid roulette. A level 90 character equipping lvl 50 gear and then queuing for this roulette to get a quick and easy LotA or CT run is not what this roulette is intended for. FFXIV's latest expansion, Endwalker, is out now!Rest of the Alliance Raids stay in "Alliance Raid Roulette" Prae and Castrum become dungeons with Trusts and maybe Ultima Weapon/Lahabrea becomes a Trial The vanilla-ARR-endgame-clusterfuck that they've band-aided over for so long with MSQ Roulette is likely one of the only problems not-new-expansion "big" enough to warrant going back. Trial roulettes stand head and shoulders above all others at a efficiency gain of 4. ago. ago. Labyrinth of the Ancients. if you're on a level 60 job, just require ilvl appropriate for 60 to queue alliance roulette. There was plenty of 80 dungeons that I enjoyed doing, but when the reward for doing a roulette is near worthless, why bother doing it. Crystal Tower remains, hands down, my favorite alliance raid content in FFXIV. Faux Commander: Idyllshire (5. While a lot of people will prefer A, it takes just 1 person picking B to drag a light party into Crystal tower. Even my highest level, on that world, a 74 smn, cannot meet that gear requirement. At maximum, doing Alliance Raids and DR for memories, it would be 29 hours for one weapon. Finally gonna get some other than Sycrus Tower for once. Alliance. For a 'random roulette', you are almost guaranteed to get CT an absurd amount of times. 30-50 has decent potd, 60-70 has decent HoH. Players must use the default Duty Finder settings to queue for a Duty Roulette, with the exception of "Join Party in Progress" and "Limited Leveling. ago. Well…maybe not. The news follows the latest live letter that was broadcasted from last week’s North American fan festival. Stick with your alliance! This fight is far less forgiving than the previous one. 1. It's not really my favorite, but I'm never upset to see it in Alliance roulette. Our FF14. Alliance varies, but it seems to usually be the 50 ones for some reason, which is around half a bar. Unsurprisingly, simply due to how ARR Alliance Raids are more generous with roulette. 2: Same as above, but for the first timer bonus instead. Notify me about new: Guides. They locked it this patch because people were cheesing the roulette by unequipping gear to force their ilvl down to get the easier and faster Crystal tower roulette. Quake IV - Raid-wide AoE, heal through. “In Search of Azdaja” Main Scenario Quest. From Final Fantasy XIV Online Wiki. I've been thinking about this lately, and I think alliance raid roulette needs some new requirements: On a job at level 60, you have to have the first level 60 alliance raid unlocked (if you're far enough in MSQ to unlock it) and have the minimum ilevel equipped, and same for 70, 80, and so on. Had to do a double take if I accidentally joined the extreme version. You can have Alliance Raids unlocked having only done the ARR alliance raids, and Raid roulette unlocked having only done a handful of Alexander raids. It's lowest level and the only set everyone is guaranteed to have unlocked. We don’t yet know how onerous the new ilvl checks are going to be in alliance roulette, but I highly doubt they’re going to be much more demanding than dungeons at similar. Home;. 6. Others such as the Level 50/60/70 Roulette, Trial Roulette, and Normal Raid Roulette, have lesser but still beneficial exp rewards. N9w they made it so the ilvl requirement for Alliance roulette scales off your level, I'm assuming they didn't take into account people who massively over level beyond the iLvl. Fact is, CT is the lowest common denominator. 5. Patch 2. Other people are giving good advice, but also FWIW alliance raids and alliance roulette tends to be one of the faster queue times because so many DPS are needed. The quest chain has quiet a few steps, but will net you one raid which you will need to complete via duty finder, finish and turn in the quest. Let’s rant about something else in this post: the alliance roulette. View Profile View Forum Posts Player Join Date Aug 2019 Posts 230. ago. About upcoming changes to Alliance Roulette. FINAL FANTASY XIV Online > General Discussions > Topic Details. 5 patch, titled “Growing Light”. 2. Oct 2, 2023 at 7:30 PM PDT 10 min read. World. New. OmegaMetroid93 • 2 yr. For most of the game the. Posts: 50. 3 and the fact that Crystal Tower raids are gonna become story mandatory those 3 should be merged and splited into a whole new alliance. The Alliance Raid Roulette ilvl change was poorly implemented super_hotshot_bowser 1 month ago #1 There's two huge issues with the newest change. Lesson 5: The shortest route was a detour. The Lv 60 ones may be the hardest to get into as the 50 ones are mandatory and the 70 ones are required for the ShB Relic. Dun Scaith, the last Alliance Raid available in the Heavensward expansion, and can be accessed in Free Trial. This happens a lot to me in alliance roulette. Duty Roulette: Alliance Raid 120 Allagan tomestones of poetics. MSQ gives rough half to a whole level depending on if you're closer to 50 or 70. Also there are people who wanna do this kinda content but its like close to impossible to. 05-29-2023 11:31 PM #3. Teil des „FINAL FANTASY XIV Produzentenbriefs LIVE” Der 39. The only roulettes worth doing are the leveling roulette, msq roulette, alliance raid roulette and frontlines roulette. 4% per minute. 7, Y:20. 2. I only have CT unlocked on a couple of characters and still have alliance roulette. * This adjustment does not apply to the Labyrinth of the Ancients,. For those who don't know, there's a thing in the game called "Alliance Roullete", where you will be queued in a random Alliance Raid you've unlocked and have the required level, and will receive extra rewards by doing so. I'm still in Stormblood, so way behind actual level 90 content. Now with a roulette its not balanced at all. A Crap Guide to Final Fantasy XIV - Magic DPS. The main factor that Crystal Tower is a must do Alliance Raid (I always thought it was a bad idea) and it only takes 1 person to put all the other 23 players into that raid. Really depends on the raid. The roulette system in the Duty Finder will not place you in content you do not qualify for based on your ilvl, even if you meet the character level requirements and have unlocked it. We are proud to present the patch notes for Newfound Adventure, which follows the Warrior of Light's first steps on a new journey after claiming victory in the battle for the fate of the star. 1 not only revitalizes older content, but provides a reliable chunk of experience for characters level 50 to 70. From there, they can select one of eight activities that reset daily to complete for additional rewards upon first-time completion. What are roulettes? Roulettes are the daily content of Final Fantasy XIV, there’s a leveling roulette, a trial roulette (bosses),. Methods to circumvent and manipulate the alliance roulette are becoming more widespread for each passing day. But being required just adds to it even more. ago. personn5 • 1 yr. . Ex. A community for fans of the critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, with an expanded free trial that…List here what Alliance Raid you get when you use the Alliance roulette so we can see how effective the new item level change is in practice. As someone said above, trial roulette is only worth it if you want fast and easy tomestones. I'm not sure how it is on other data centers, but on Crystal, alliance raid roulette has just become Crystal Tower roulette. It's actually the other way around. All alliance raids except the crystal tower series got an exp and tome increase with the higher the level the more the increase. Date Posted: Sep 11, 2022 @ 9:09am. Goblin. In fact I purposely put on highest gear to get the highest possible alliance. Removing CT from queue would just create long queues for whoever specifically queues for it. 50-60 range is the worst range for side leveling as potd leveling slows down a lot. If there was a way for the vets to opt out, then we all would, and then the newbies would get stuck with a deserted dungeon. Labyrinth of the Ancients was the. this lead to an inflated rate in which many ppl only got to play CT and almost never one of the other raids. 9 times out of 10, Alliance Raids Roulette results LotA. Yeah, don't underestimate talking and joking with the party, especially during boring runs like MSQ roulette or Alliance roulette. Like other roulettes, it's a way to. There are 10 different tiers of level, and each tier has a certain number of savage raids. Also takes a longer time. CT wouldn't be out of roulettes entirely, it. I would kill to get any Ivalice raid in Roulette. People downsynching themselves with removing already equipped items. Once you unlock enough Alliance raids, which are 24 Man raids, you also unlock a daily Alliance Raid roulette which has some nice bonuses for exp and gil and tomes Each expac has 3 Alliance Raids, with CT being from ARR. And most importantly, there are now IL restrictions for entering Alliance Roulette based on your level! Say goodbye to Crystal. Do your daily leveling roulette. There's no benefit to ilvl cheesing other roulettes. I'm just sick of doing WoD over, and over, and over again.